Biden-Ryan Vice Presidential Debate: Local GOP & Democrats React
Vice-presidential candidates Joe Biden and Paul Ryan squared off in debate last night, a week after presidential candidates Barack Obama and Mitt Romney had their first debate. Here's how Massachusetts Republicans and Democrats think their candidates did.
Photos
Massachusetts Democrats were more enthusiastic about Joe Biden's vice presidential debate performance than Bay State Republicans were about Paul Ryan's performance: that's the major finding of the Red and Blue Commonwealth flash polls sent out to local politicos immediately after the debate ended Thursday night.
Biden and Ryan faced off on Thursday, Oct. 11 at Centre College in Danville, Kentucky, with ABC News' Martha Raddatz moderating the debate that covered both domestic and foreign policy.
Of the 14 local influential Democrats who took the survey, 12 of them (85.7 percent) voted that Biden won by a large margin, with one voting that the current vice president won by a slim margin and one voting "neutral."
Meanwhile, of the 25 local influential Republicans who took the survey, seven of them (28 percent) voted that Ryan won by a large margin, with 13 (52 percent) voting that the congressman won by a slim margin. Five Republicans voted "neutral."
That's a switch from the presidential debate on Oct. 3, when in similar flash polls by Patch, local Democrats were less enthusiastic about President Barack Obama's performance and local Republicans were more enthusiastic about Gov. Mitt Romney's performance.
Asked who would be the consensus "winner" as declared by the national media, Democrats were unanimous in voting that Biden would be declared the winner, with 10 voting it'd be by a wide margin and four voting it'd be by a slim margin.
Republicans were almost evenly divided on who the national media would declare the consensus winner: seven voted it'd be Ryan by a slim margin, seven voted it'd be Biden by slim margin, seven voted "neutral" and four voted it'd be Biden by a wide margin.
What Moment Stood Out?
Asked for a moment that will stand out in the minds of conservatives in Massachusetts, many of the local Republicans who took the flash poll took issue with Biden's demeanor and behavior during the debate, during which the vice president laughed and smiled during some of Ryan's answers. Several characterized his behavior as "disrespectful" and "rude."
"Biden was incredibly rude and condescending throughout the debate," wrote one Republican respondent. "His demeanor—the smirking and eye rolling—was offensive."
Others focused on Ryan's behavior in contrast to Biden's, which Republicans characterized as "cool and collected," "composure" and "honest, sincere."
Democratic respondents focused on the debate's exchanges on the economy and taxes when asked for a moment that will stand out in the minds of liberals and progressives in Massachusetts. Some chose Biden raising Romney's "47 percent" comment caught on tape, while others focused on Biden's exchange over the economy and taxes, saying "still no specifics" and "the R's math does not add up."
Two people chose Biden's line, "Now you're Jack Kennedy?" in response to Ryan mentioning tax cuts passed under John F. Kennedy.
A few Democratic respondents expressed concern that Biden's "laughter" and "arrogance" would stand out in the mind of Massachusetts' swing voters, but others characterized the vice president's demeanor as aggressive: "Joe Biden calling out Paul Ryan's malarkey" and "Joe putting Ryan on the defensive" were two respondent's comments.
Other Democrats focused on economic issues, from the "47 percent" comment to Romney and Ryan's tax plan.
Most Republican respondents stuck with Biden's "boorish and bizarre" behavior, as one respondent put it, when asked what moment would stand out for Bay State swing voters.
"Paul Ryan's comments on Romney's bipartisianship," one Republican respondent wrote. "Also, no matter who you were, Biden's smirking was something you couldn't ignore. I don't think anybody liked it."
Two Republicans also focused on Ryan's statements regarding Social Security and Medicare.
Democrats Bullish on Biden's Effect on Mass. Votes, Republicans Lukewarm on Ryan's Effect
Most of the local Democrats surveyed said Biden's performance would increase the number of votes Obama gets in Massachusetts, with nine strongly agreeing it would increase Obama's Bay State votes and four somewhat agreeing. One somewhat disagreed Biden helped bolster Obama's Massachusetts vote totals.
Republicans were somewhat split when asked if Ryan's performance would increase the number of votes Romney gets in Massachusetts. Two strongly agreed it would and 11 somewhat agreed, while eight were neutral, three somewhat disagreed and one strongly disagreed.
In closing opinions, Democrats gave favorable reviews to Biden's performance, saying he spoke with "passion and caring," that he "trounced" Ryan and that he "referred more to fact than did Ryan." They also gave favorable reviews to the debate as whole, calling it "thoughtful," "heavy on policy and specifics" and lauding Raddatz's performance as moderator.
"Biden owned this debate. Paul Ryan came across as evasive, dogmatic and amateurish," one Democratic respondent wrote.
Some Republicans weren't as happy with Raddatz's job as moderator, saying she "allowed so much interruptions by Biden" and that her "raising abortion issue appeared to be a 'set-up.'"
Others praised Ryan, saying he did a "great job of sticking to the issues that matter the most," that he "gave a sincere, factual debate" and was "very gentleman-like and much better spoken than I anticipated."
One Republican respondent said that Biden "probably succeeded" in bolstering the Democratic base.
"But Biden’s statements will not survive a thorough fact check," the respondent continued. "Ryan was polite, he made his points despite being interrupted, he said the things he needed to say to continue making the case that the Obama administration is a failure. Ryan was a bit too deferential, nevertheless he held his own and succeeded preventing the tide which is definitely moving in the Romney/Ryan direction."
Who do you think won the debate? Tell us in the comments below.
Red and Blue Commonwealth Surveys
Our surveys are not a scientific, random sample of any larger population, but rather an effort to listen to a group of influential local Republican activists, party leaders, candidates and elected officials in Massachusetts. All of these individuals have agreed to participate in Massachusetts' Patch's surveys, although not all responded to this story's questions.
Patch will be conducting Red Commonwealth and Blue Commonwealth surveys throughout the 2012 election season in hopes of determining the true sentiment of conservatives and liberals on the ground in Massachusetts. If you are an activist, party leader or elected official and would like to take part in periodic surveys that last just a few minutes, please contact Associate Regional Editor Daniel DeMaina at danield@patch.com.
Howard Kosrofian
12:56 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
I it like that THE DEMOCRATS ARE BULLISH ON BIDEN, he sure is full of BULL.IN centuries past he would not be vice president he would be the COURT JESTOR. TIME FOR THIS COUNTRY TO RAISE THE BAR AND GET BACK TO SOME STANDARDS THAT MADE THIS COUNTRY GREAT, STARTING NOV 6. BY Electing ROMNEY and RYAN. This four year experiment should be OVER !!!!
MoonBeamWatcher
1:29 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Biden was the class CLOWN and graduated DEAD last from Law School.
I always thought he was just . . . ahhh, BHO's 'life insurance policy'!
Last night he reinforced his reputation and was most unprofessional
and ignorant in his repeated interuptions! OMG! = Obama Must Go!
MoonBeamWatcher
2:08 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Only briefly touched on Stephens assination. I certainly would have drawn the connection to US Marines assigned to the relatively safe Paris Embassy while the most dangerous one was not reinforced when REQUEST was made!
I was awe struck that NO mention of the White House leaks and the outing of the MD who gave the Bin ladin location and the SERIOUS set-back that has caused intelligence collection! OMG! = Obama Must Go!
PS/ the president was invited to Martha wedding so . . . I guess that explains why she didn't scold the VP for his childish and rude interruptions of Mr. Ryan
Carolyn A. Gritter
6:27 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
To MoonBeamWatcher: It is my understanding that U.S. Marines are assigned to guard U.S. embassies not consulates, so to discuss the level of security at the Benghazi consulate in the context of a lack of marine presence is not informed.
DAD
9:54 am on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Carolyn A. Gritter, If that is the case why did the Ambassador ask the State Dept. for more Marine protection?
Reader99
3:37 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
Biden acted like a buffoon in that debate. Ryan I would be proud to have for V.P. Oh and the moderator was a joke as well.
Howard Kosrofian
4:08 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
We have always known the media leans left, however I have never seen anything that mirror`s this. MSNBC, the worst then CNN, and the three networks are included. when the state dept had a press conference the other evening, they requested that FOX not be there. THIS TYPE OF THING GOING ON IN THIS COUNTRY IS HORRIBLE. THERE IS ONLY ONE SOLUTION, VOTE THIS GANG OUT NOV 6 TH, OTHERWISE IM AFRAID WE GOING LOOK BACK ON 2012 AS THE GOOD OLE DAY`S !!!!
Steven Iverson
5:12 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
"We have always known the media leans left . . . " Depends on what "we" means, what "the media" means, and what "left" means. Without defining your terms, your statement kind of sounds like maybe it could be plausible -- but it doesn't really say anything. It's a perfect example of "truthiness" (as coined by Stephen Colbert).
Reader99
7:22 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
I agree. What's going on in the media now is downright sick and SCAREY.
MoonBeamWatcher
10:11 pm on Friday, October 12, 2012
YES . . . how would Erick Holder on the Supreme Court work
out as the cherry on top of that "Hope and Change" pack of lies?!
Neil in Waltham
12:22 am on Sunday, October 14, 2012
The media are neither left nor right, they're in it for the money and tilt their stories to capture their desired audience appropriately.
It began with Fox "News", run by Roger Ailes who got his start as Richard Nixon's P.R. man. Their business plan was simple (taken from McDonalds): give the people what they want. The "News" provided by Fox is about as full of journalistic integrity and facts as the "food" provided by McDonalds is full of nutrition. The goal is affirmation, not information or facts.
In time, their business model proved incredibly lucrative. By putting the money into "star" hosts rather than journalists and newsdesks, and providing analysis and commentary rather than facts, they created the "infotainment" medium. They were helped along by another plan: denigrate the rest of the media (and facts) as "liberal", and offer a right-wing (called "conservative") view. Playing this victim card helped lock their audience into only one source for their information (always a dangerous sign — look up epistemic closure). Oddly, when they're not moaning about the "biased" mainstream media, they're boasting about their market dominance — which by any honest standard makes them mainstream.
MSNBC copied the Fox model, but targeting lefties rather than right-wingers. Less successfully, as lefties don't watch as much television, don't rely on the soundbite format as heavily for their information, or like to be told what to think.
Money is the bottom line.
Howard Kosrofian
7:45 am on Sunday, October 14, 2012
WHO`S KIDDING WHO MSNBC is far more OVER THE TOP than FOX. Sure there in it for the money, Trouble is MSNBC has NO ratings. GE pay`s no taxes, BIG OBAMABOTS. AT least FOX has a sense of dacorum. When they do have a lefty on there far more civil to them, than the CRACKPOTS over at MSNBC. IN fact MSNBC, MAY AS WELL BE A COMPLETE OBAMA STATION, THEY EVEN USE THE FORWARD MANTRA, OF THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN, with people like MADDCOW, and lunanitic MATHEWS. WHERE IN HELL could the phony AL NOT SO SHARPTON other than there. HE LOST WEIGHT EVERYWHERE BUT IN HIS HEAD, LOOKS LIKE IT BELONGS ON ANOTHER BODY !!! I KNOW it`s filled with so much knowledge. LET`S FACE IT IT`S A FREE AIR SPACE FOR THE DEMOCRATS AND OBAMA. IF you notice every black they hire, is almost in the image of OBAMA light skinned milk chocolate, CAN`T BE TOO BLACK. WITH OUT AND OUT COMMIES LIKE MALISSA HARRIS -PERRY babbling there speak, it`s CLOSE to being SNL, IF YOU DIDN`T KNOW BETTER.
Ken Rice
10:04 am on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Neil in Waltham hits the nail on the head. Fox is the most successful example of partisan journalism which exists to give affirmation to the Right. MSNBC has copied their model for the Left and now is ahead of CNN who hasn't chosen to lean in any particular direction. No television broadcasts reach much of the US population anymore since the internet gives people the partisan news we all seem to be attracted to.
MoonBeamWatcher
12:29 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
YES, all about the money! Screw the Constitutional protections which should be revisited and removed from 'entertainment rags!'
When the circulation of print media and T-Bow marginalized the media
they threw out the JOURNALISTS and replaced them with Bean Counters.
Simplified rEPORTING with Red vs, Blue and Lib vs. Conservative all a
wonderful connect the dots kind of GAME. Not too long ago the Herald
and WHDH had to be separated because of illegality of owning 2 major
news outlets in the same market place. TODAY the NY Times has the
control of thoughts and ideas from beyond DC to the Canadian border
with the FLAG SHIP and the NY=Globe . . . together with gov Weld they
shoved Margaret Marshall on the MA SJC as Chief Justice and SS this
and that sidestepped the voter and contributed to a total reversal of
moral values held sacred to New England. Then I give you the most
BOTTOM kissing of them all - Huffn'Puffn' with its TODAY headlines that
Obama is trashing Romney in "Early Voting!" Isn't it illegal to make
announcements before ALL the polls close? Obama and his great
debates over Big Bird who like Planned Parenthood - should, because
of it's ability to be SELF SUSTAINING not receive Tax Dollars when
they must be borrowed from China?! While the media is a no-show!
Ahhh for the days when we all reverted to being Americans after the
elections - instead of Dems and Republicans 24/7! God Bless America
and I repeat. OMG!= Obama Must Go!
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
10:12 am on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Liberal hatred of Fox News knows no bounds. What if we only had state-run media singing the praises of Obama?
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
MoonBeamWatcher
12:26 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Looks like LETTERMAN is on the Obama re-election team!
I hear about Mitt and his dog on the roof while knowing BHO (or
is it BHS) eat dog in Maylasia I will puke. OMG! Obama Must Go!
Howard Kosrofian
10:41 am on Sunday, October 14, 2012
YOU have it right REV. CNN is far from in the middle, to the left for sure, as for MSNBC THERE SO FAR TO THE LEFT THEY FELL OFF THE TABLE.
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
10:49 am on Sunday, October 14, 2012
But for Fox News and the Wall Street Journal we might not even have an election in a few weeks. Obama could be making plans for his third term.
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
Devalp2005
12:20 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Pimple:
Fox News is not a network---it's a support group.
We might not have an election? Give all of us some of what you are smoking---A study from May of this year by Farleigh Dickenson University found that Fox viewers are the least informed people in the country---Even if, like you, they have LOTS of time on their hands to post their ill-informed views....
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
4:01 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Your handle says it all... who would proudly be paired with Deval Patrick?
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
Howard Kosrofian
12:40 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Well pimple, YOUR NAME SAYS IT BEST !!! MOST Democrats are the PIMPLE on the ASS off PROGRESS.
Reader99
3:21 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
The worse network on tv is msnbc. I happened to turn them on twice this week and caught parts of Lawrence O'Donnell's show and Ed Schultz's show. O'Donnell was calling for the death of Gingrich??? And Schultz was having a meltdown over everything. I guess Chris Matthews had one also but I missed that. I'm not going to watch again. But in my house we were wondering why NBC allows them to talk the way they do, threatening people and all.
fitzroy
10:51 pm on Sunday, October 14, 2012
Ed Schultz is the worst...Ed is to liberals as Anne Coulter is to conservatives...barf!
rvd
9:26 pm on Monday, October 15, 2012
So, republicans, if Ryan is soooo much better than Biden and it is clear to you he won, why are you abusing CAPS lock on this forum?
Earnhardt
9:46 pm on Monday, October 15, 2012
Biden could have easily won. All the years of experience (40+) should have buried Ryan, But he chose to act like a school kid and guffaw and make stupid faces and comments that were great to tweet, Therefore Ryan won because Biden looked foolish. The President is doing the same thing, Using Big Bird. I mean if you can't run an ad touting your accomplishments, then using Big Bird is a last act of desperation.
Walt Cassell
9:53 pm on Monday, October 15, 2012
Well said Earnhardt! Big Bird won't win voters unless they allow 5 year olds the right to vote. Hey buddy, coffee sat morning? you got my email, let me know. ( we can discuss senior)
Howard Kosrofian
6:32 am on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Edward Kein`s book SAY`S IT BEST about OBAMA. THE AMATUER. ROMNEY IS A PROFESSIONAL, That`s what you want running the COUNTRY !!!!!!
Earnhardt
7:39 am on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Obama was an amateur who was in over his head from day one. You are so right, we need a professional. Mitt is that professional.
Howard Kosrofian
9:40 am on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
CHAMELEON haha OBAMA changes his SPEECH influction depending on who he is talking to, in a black crowd he starts jiving, WITH WHITE LIBERALS HE PUTS ON HIS phony Harvard crap. OBAMA is a man with out any grounding, LET`S SEE BORN IN HAWAII maybe, LIVED IN INDONESSIA,spent time in PAKISTAN and KENYA, then he became CHICAGOIAN, this guy is all over the place HELL HE DOESN`T EVEN KNOW WHO HE IS. IS HE OBAMA or BARRY SOETORO, who knows. THE REAL STORY ON THIS PHONY WILL COME OUT ONCE HE leaves office.
Earnhardt
9:48 am on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Hillary suddenly steps up a few weeks after the embassy disaster and admits she is responsible. I wonder what the administration is holding over her head? Why didn't she step up right away? Her boss is responsible, ultimately he was the one who has the power to authorize troop protection. Another dropped ball Obama. Who will be the next scapegoat?
Howard Kosrofian
9:51 am on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
SO TRUE Hillary went on to apologize for a VIDEO that never WAS. Talk about spoon feeding the masses a load of bull, THAT`S WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN DOING FOR 4 YEARS.
Howard Kosrofian
11:40 am on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Funny how LIBERALS get there undies in a knot over CAPS, HA HA Just shows you how in love with REGULATION`S they are. They march in lock step like a bunch of NORTH KOREAN soldeirs..............
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
11:47 am on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Howard, it ain't just liberals. Anyone who paid attention to their English teacher knows CAP LOCKS should be used with discretion.
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
Howard Kosrofian
11:57 am on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
English teacher. Well when I was in school my friend, there were no such things as cap locks, NO COMPUTERS. Long before the the 1990`s. AT least it is affective it gets your ATTENTION, live with it. I live with a lot things in this world im not wild about, starting with the guy in the WHITE HOUSE.
Steven Iverson
11:58 am on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Howard, you're a great guy, but many of the comments you've left here could create a mistaken impression that you're a troll and that you enjoy acting like a jerk. Please consider changing how you post so that people don't go away thinking you're really like that. You deserve better.
Howard Kosrofian
12:04 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Well im who I am. I GUESS I will use when on the new catch phrase`s of the day, WE will agree to disagree. IT`S content im concerned with not packaging, you see that`s how OBAMA fooled everyone in the first place it`s all packaging. Everything in life is not always as it seems, smoke and mirrors.
Howard Kosrofian
12:08 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
I am starting to notice one thing, that may very telling the way things are going. The Libs are getting very testy, I think they sense something that`s about to happen on Nov 6 th is not what they expected.
Howard Kosrofian
1:38 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Now let`s not take an elitist attitude boys.I haven`t said anything about you guy`s your free to write anyway you choose, it`s fine by me. IM not forcing my way on you, don`t force yours on me.You resort to name calling, that say`s it all.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2:05 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Honest question: If you're a conservative living here as a resident of Massachusetts, why would you even bother voting for Mitt Romney? Your vote really does not matter as Obama will win the state regardless.
Mark Howell
3:29 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Regardless of whom you're voting for, it is always important to participate. Vote for the candidates who best represent your values, whether or not you feel they are going to be winners in this election. Your vote will not always be THE deciding vote, but it is your responsibility to vote anyway.
M C Stringfellow
3:52 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Thank you, Mark. That is how I feel. If you do not vote, do not complain about the outcome.
MoonBeamWatcher
5:18 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
TRU . . . beeeeeeep, WRONG! One could have lept to your illogical conclusion when Martha went to claim "TEDS Seat!" Even the GOP failed to support Brown in a meaningful way and since have abandoned him to his own devices. Remember how they treated him at the GOP Convention? We, Mr. and Mrs. Six-Pack sent Scott Brown to DC to deliver a message to Beacon Hill and BOTH SIDES of the aisle in DC. Our elected leakers took NOTE, witness the following Obama State of the Union Address when our 9% favorable rated Congress and Senate had DATE NIGHT. UnEnrolled RULE! OMG! = Obama Must Go!
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
4:14 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
The Earth hesitates in its orbit, pausing its annual rotation around the Sun. Time stands still as The Annointed One, The One We Have Been Waiting For, The Modern Messiah prepares to debate a mere pretender to the throne. A tentative world awaits the revealed wisdom from The Dominant Democrat... in town hall format.
Your spirtual advisor,
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
Howard Kosrofian
4:29 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Well if the town hall format is stocked with College kids from Hofstra, who will be wondering about free tuition, free condems, etc it`s great to get these things on someone else`s DIME, they have just the right guy there in OBAMA TO PANDER TO THEM. Obama is really having a blast with HILLARY, he throws her under the bus on LYBIA, the whole party threw under the bus 4 years ago. I don`t think BILL ever NIALED her that good.
Rose J
5:05 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Howard, do you think you could stop your ranting nonsense for the two seconds it would take to grammar- and spell-check yourself? Whatever bizarre message you are trying to spread was lost long ago among all the NEEDLESS CAPITAL LETTERS, misplaced apostrophes (not EVERY word ending in "s" requires one, you know, especially not when you are simply making a word plural), and misspellings.
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
4:36 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Sonny,
Well okay, one revolution daily and one revolution annually. Perhaps you never signed on to Copernicus's findings. Elitists of the Middle Ages did not subscribe either.
Reverend E. Raleigh Pimperton III
MoonBeamWatcher
5:41 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
Can't reply to Rose J,
Sooooo, guess cart is before the horse!
Yes, BO must have something on Hillary!
The TRUTH is that the BUCK stops at OBAMAS desk! Just as AG Holder should have offered his resignation because of "Fast and Furious", so to should Hillary! If it was not forthcoming BHO (the man who appointed them to REPRESENT HIM) should have DEMANDED they RESIGN or fired them! Credit taken for Bin ladin, followed by OUTING the MD who told the CIA and FBI where his RAT HOLE WAS, puts the fear of G-d in anyone who might come forward and provide aid to the WESTERN civilization! OMG! = Obama Must Go!
PS/ Rose J, "Thanks Teach" when your without reasonable response in a reply, the attack on spelling is Standard Operating Procedure!
Rob
8:55 pm on Tuesday, October 16, 2012
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=vevn0k&s=4
Howard Kosrofian
7:32 am on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
Obama beat`s his chest yesterday at the debate HILLARY works for me !! After she took a bullett for him, put that way she must have loved that.Bill craped all over her, now Obama.
Howard Kosrofian
7:38 am on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
Thanks Moon Beam, your right Rose thinks we are in english class. She doesn`t address the content about the liar and chief, concerned about the spelling. I get the feeling she get`s paid from our taxes somewhere don`t you ?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
8:09 pm on Wednesday, October 17, 2012
Ron Paul